how the 3rd tarkeeb impacts translation

[nutty]

Assalamun Alaikum

Ive trying to understand how the 3rd tarkeeb impacts translation..but i cant seem to see it how it all works and how meaning are change if u dnt do it correctly...Its like am just going against a brick wall..i just cant see it falling into place....i think if i could just understand how it impacts sentence and how meaning r change it would help me greatly..

Can some please explain to me with several examples...

jazak-Allaah

[madinah]

Wa'alaykumassalam,

I think you should read this Sentence Parsing | Learn Arabic Online. Hope this helps, inshaAllah.

[nutty]

Jazak-Allaah sis/bro i read that while back and although i understand a bit...but didnt gain enuf understanding to be able to understand how it impacts translations and meaning..

[malam]

I would say that the translation is derived from 3rd tarkeeb. 3rd tarkeeb is where you identify, faail, Haal, ism and khabr. right?

So you'd only say Yaqub was the doer of the verb once you've determined its faail. And once you know the mubtada and khabr, you know where to drop the 'is'. I guess without the 3rd tarkeeb, they would just be a series of words, that you could probably relate to each other in many different ways to translate it, however the 3rd tarkeeb will bring out the intended meaning of the author. The 3rd tarkeeb gives you the structure and relationship of the words to each other to derive a meaning. then the meaning is reformatted into english and translated.

2nd tarkeeb is the word by word, mabni b/c its a harf etc. I don't think that per se will impact the translation. but it will impact how you'll pronounce the words and voweling.

I hope that helps.

[aqib]

well your requirement of explaination with "several examples" is indeed a difficult one if you know what i mean. Inshallah this will get clear on more exposure. You will come across "many" examples inshallah.

quick one - just came to me for instance - the verse in Nur - Yakhaafoona youman ... (i believe 24:37). This sentence occurs as haal of the dhameer referring to believers in previous sentence

If you take youman maf. bihi then "They fear the (horrors of the) day..." but if you take youman maf. fihi then "They fear (something - which is not specified here - omission of maf. bihi is acceptable if context is clear) on that day..." While grammaratically one would argue both are acceptable but from overall consideration one would chose the first tarkeeb.

So yes, depending on the tarkeeb - meaning does change.

i m not sure if you are taking tafseer of a3raaf class on weekends, but we discuss these issues. There is a thread we just started on this forum that discusses the tarkeeb.

pm me if you are willing to see the examples from tafseer books in arabic and i can then point you to page numbers etc.

[nutty]

@aqib ive pm u for details...jazak-Allaah..not sure whether the msg was sent to u...cos ders nothing in my sent box..

[Ummalik]

Assalamu alaikum wrwb

ضَرَبَ أَحْمَدُ الوَلَدَ
Ahmad hit the boy.

ضَرَبَ الوَلَدَ أَحْمَدُ
Ahmad hit the boy.

Take a close look at both sentences carefully and tell me why they convey the same meaning in English.

So you need to be able to identify the faai'l (subject) and the Maf'uul bihi (object) in order to convey the correct meaning into English.

In English only one way to convey the this verbal sentence is correct.
Subject + Verb + Object.

Insha Allah you see the need now, if not just post and we will elaborate.

May Allaah make Arabic easy for you, amen.

[nutty]

@ummalik..i do understand the basic sentences...its when the sentence gets longer and complex...its what am having trouble understanding...
if u dnt mind could you please elaborate..

[Ummalik]

Assalamu alaikum wrwb

If you have already understood the necessity for identifying the parts of the sentence then you have already understood the need for 3rd tarkeeb.

This is a simple example:

بعض المواد تكون جسيماتها متقاربة ومتراصة كما هو الحال في كرة الزجاج وفي بعضها الآخر تكون الجسيمات متباعدة كما في حبة الفشار
Some matter be particles their close together and compact just as it the state in ball the marble and in some their others be the particles far apart just as in piece the popcorn. (Stripped of 3rd tarkeeb) It can be very confusing trying to grasp the authors objectives especially in more complex sentences.

The particles of some matter are close together and compact as is the state of the marble and the particles of others are far apart as in a piece of popcorn. (Translation with 3rd tarkeeb) It makes it much easier to comprehend without any effort. After practice, recognizing each structure becomes easy and makes reading more fluent.

May Allaah make Arabic easy for you, amen.

[nutty]

jazak-Allaah for your reply...insha-Allaah over the course of this program and more exposure to the analysis...il get more proficent..